I'm concerned about now convinced we'll
never fulfill the Great Commission with
half of the church sitting on the bench
okay somebody's asked
[Music]
her can a woman be a pastor or an elder
I would love to hear your thoughts yeah
absolutely does the church need women
Shepherds
yes I am a woman Pastor listen I am a
woman Pastor that loves the hell out of
people that's what I do and I mean that
in a spiritual manner I'm gonna do two
things I'm going to ask that the Lord
help me
so do two things to communicate this
very important message clearly
and second of all I'm going to ask that
the Lord start to Open the Eyes of some
of the people who have treated me and
God like a second class Citizen and I
think I need to stand up for the
millions of Godly Southern Baptist women
whose gifts
and Leadership skills are being stymied
the only places where Paul writes any
corrections about women are to Greek
cities he wrote to Creed Corinth and
Ephesus those were all Greek cities why
is that important because they all had
Greek gods the god the god of those
cities of each of those cities were a
woman
and that's why Paul addresses in First
Corinthians 11 for example he says it
was first you know he says first there
was God then Christ then then man than
women and the reason why he addresses
creation order is because he's talking
to Greeks who who believe that women
should dominate men because of their
creation order wow
absolutely blocking haters ain't got
time for it I'm blocking The Debaters
and the haters
thank you
hello everyone welcome along for truth
my name is Daniel long sitting next to
me is my lovely wife Robin hi everyone
so today we're going to be revisiting an
old topic a couple of years ago Robin
and I did a video called women can be
pastors to what does the Bible say we
are going to be addressing that issue
again because some concerns have come up
about it we're going to be looking at uh
the role of women in the church we're
going to be asking the question from a
Biblical perspective looking at what the
Bible says can women be pastors can they
be church leaders and can they lead men
and we will put the link to the old
video we did
um over in the comments because it's a
we we're using totally different
examples different people talking about
it and different passages yeah so we did
want to share with you a few of the
comments that we got and one of the
comments that we got on our last video
and we got it numerous times was it said
no disrespect but Robin is here teaching
men in the internet audience so isn't
this the same thing someone else right
what's the difference between what you
the woman are doing here you're teaching
alongside the man
and I'm sure there are men listening I'm
not disputing what you're saying I'm
just curious as how you would explain
this yeah so here's how we would explain
it
um no Robin it is Robin is not doing the
same thing as what we had talked about
in that video because the Bible doesn't
forbid this the Bible forbids women
being pastors of a church in a church
setting and Leading Men in a church and
in our opinion that would even include
adult Sunday School classes where men
are present
um and so what Robin is doing here
what Paulette does with Steve on the
messed up church is not the same thing
this is not what Paul is talking about
otherwise you would have to eliminate
passages that discuss women prophetesses
Priscilla and Aquila all of that uh all
of those other passages Paul is
specifically speaking of
H in a a church Gathering and Ecclesia a
a congregation where the church is
um operating at that particular point in
time so if Danny were standing at the
podium in a church and I got up to help
him that would be inappropriate yes that
would be inappropriate so know what
Robin is doing is not the same thing uh
as what Paul is talking about in those
passages okay so hopefully that helps
um another question please can you show
me anywhere at all in the Bible using
the word Pastor in reference to your
topic yes we can so in order to do that
I'm going to have to share the screen
and I'm going to have to go over to
Ephesians chapter four so let's do that
all right so here we are over in uh
Ephesians chapter four let me get the
Greek up here we're in Ephesians chapter
four and um this is what it says
and he Christ gave the apostles the
prophets the evangelists the Shepherds
and the teachers now the ESV translates
this word Shepherd uh this Greek word
which is right over here
um and that is uh the Greek word poemena
and it is translate if you look down
there at the very bottom of the screen I
wish I could hold my cursor there but if
you look down on the Greek you can see
at the very bottom of the screen it is
translated pastor but let me click on it
and we'll open up b-dag and we'll see
what this actually means so the first
definition one who heard sheep Shepherd
sheep herder okay
um and then we come down here to the
second one who serves as guardian or
leader Shepherd
when we come down here of those who lead
Christian communities and then we can
come all the way down human leaders okay
and we see our passage is right there he
gave the apostles the prophets the
evangelists the Shepherds and the
teachers now what we want to do is we
want to look at how other Bible
translations translate this Greek word
so the ESV of course translates at
Shepherd this is the text comparison
tool I use this a lot because this is
just so helpful
um and it says there it translates that
word as you can see where my cursor is
Shepherds the nasb translates it pastors
he gave he gave some to be prophets and
some evangelists and some as pastors the
new King James version translates that
word pastors the lexum English Bible
translates the word pastors the NIV
translates it pastors Young's literal
translation does what the ESV does and
translates it as Shepherds and even the
King James translates it pastors the uh
net pastors and the Holman Christian
Standard Version Pastor so you can see
the majority of those translations
translate that verse as Pastor so a
Shepherd is a pastor
so Danny I think the issue was that
we're talking about women being pastors
and a number of people said well pastors
isn't even in the Bible so maybe the
translation you are reading uses another
form of the word so if you see Elder
overseer Shepherd
that would be the same thing as a pastor
so we could say women should not be
Elders they shouldn't be Shepherds they
shouldn't lead the church exactly
um now so that that I hope that that's
clear and also please remember that's in
the context of Christ giving these gifts
to the church the evangelists the
apostles the teachers the pastors all of
those gifts are given to the church and
Shepherd or Pastor is one of those gifts
okay right so our first clip today is by
Beth Moore women are spiritually gifted
the same as men even if our roles May
differ we may have distinctions but we
better figure out how is it we are going
to serve not just consume how is it
we're going to serve and is there any
place to do that one of the things that
has concerned me most with believing
that there was an extremely hard pull to
the far right where there was going to
be less and less for women to do and
where it was getting more and more the
norm that the only thing a woman really
was called to do that was blessed by God
in the church was in the context of the
traditional family I love the family I
love my role as wife I love my role as
mother but I'm going to ask you what in
the world are you going to do with ten
thousands single men and women this just
does not make sense yes this is a very
strong context it's not the only one we
have calling
whether inside or outside at home
whether men or women you don't wipe out
half the gospel Force
and so
um I'm gonna let Robin start on that uh
first
um
comment that she made about women and
the family so
um Beth Moore is
exaggerating greatly
the issue that she is having with women
in the church and yes uh obviously this
happens because of what was going on
with the Southern Baptist convention
and she said in this clip her concern is
about a hard pull to the far right in
which
the only thing that women can do and be
blessed by God is to have a role in the
family
as a wife and mother and number one
that's just so not true Danny I know and
um when she makes that comment at the
end there where it says something to the
she said something to the fact I might
have to look at the clip again but
something to the effect of wiping out
half of the company gospel Force there
you go you don't wipe out half the
gospel Force
um
so so she's talking about women not
being able to serve no one is saying
women can't serve in the church
there are places in scripture where Paul
talks about women teaching but not men
and not pastoring women can teach women
what's wrong with that women can teach
children and women can teach outside the
church women can share the gospel on the
street women can sit at their workplace
and talk to men about the gospel
and so I mean it's just um you know it's
just not a good argument not at all I
have not heard of a church
in which a woman did not hold a teaching
position over children or or other women
and she was relegated to be and and
saying only to the family
as if that is not as if being a mother
and a wife is not a high calling
especially a mother who is training
these little ones
to grow up to be Godly men and women I
mean how is that uh a a small calling
that's one of the highest callings a
person can have exactly that is not less
than anything it is not it is greater
than yes
Matthew 16
17-18 States and Jesus answered him
blessed are you Simon barjona for flesh
and blood has not revealed this to you
but my father who is in heaven and I
tell you you are Peter and on this rock
I will build my church and the Gates of
Hell shall not shall not Prevail against
it so according to Beth more than not
women not being leaders in the church
and especially over men
um you are wiping out half the gospel
Force Jesus says that he is building his
church and the Gates of Hell will not
Prevail against it
um so there's no way that we are wiping
out half the gospel Force Christ is
going to build his church and it will
stand and it will last in recent Church
news and I'm sure you've heard this the
Southern Baptist convention expelled
Saddleback Church for having female
pastors Rick Warren had been on the
Russell Moore Show explaining the
scriptures that he used to justify his
change of mind and we're going to share
those scriptures with you and talk about
them the first passage is the Great
Commission
in that study
caused me to change my view about women
nothing else could have studied it as I
Came Upon three different scriptures
first
the Great Commission
now Baptist Southern Baptists like to
call ourselves Great Commission Baptists
and we claim that we believe the Great
Commission is for everybody both men and
women are to fulfill the Great
Commission well not really you don't
believe that because it says there are
four verbs in the Great Commission go
make disciples
baptize
and teach
women are to go
women are to make disciples women are to
baptize
and women are to teach not just men
now this is one of the reasons why
Saddleback is baptized more people than
any church in American history 57
000 adult baptisms
in 43 years why because in our church if
you went into Christ you get to baptize
them
so if a mom wants to baptize her child
or a wife wants to baptize her husband
that she led to Christ
anybody can baptize anybody they led to
Christ 57 000 it's the reliberation the
emancipation of every member as a
minister that truly we believe in the
priesthood of the priest most of the
time instead of the priest of the
believer
now Great Commission Go Make Disciples
Baptist teach you can't say well the
first two are for men and women the last
two are only for men or maybe just
ordained men that's I said Jesus
that's why you got a prop who authorizes
women to teach Jesus all authority is
given to me therefore teach
all authority is given to me therefore
baptize you've got a problem with the
Great Commission
I had to repent when I actually looked
at the Great Commission I had to say
it's not just for ordained men it's for
everybody
and the Great Commission is for
everybody but it does not say there in
the Great Commission that women are to
be pastors the Great Commission is for
men and women women can teach other
women and children and they can teach
outside the church
um so as Rick Warren actually saying
that he read the Great Commission and
thought it had to do with female
leadership in the church that's what
he's saying what he's repenting over
yeah it's such a week week argument it's
unbelievable every week um so so yes
women are to be uh doing what Jesus
commanded men to do the same in the
Great Commission and I hear this and I
think of all of these single female
missionaries Through the Ages yeah who
have shared the gospel around the world
yes but they weren't pastors and you
know so I mean and that's that's our
point you can look at
um
plenty of examples in scripture where
women were prophetesses and you can look
at Aquila and Priscilla who school to
Palace
and those are all facts or biblical
facts but that does not nullify Paul's
command and it doesn't mean that Paul
was kind of beating around the bush or
he had something else on you know in
mind uh when he said that women are not
to teach men that is just not how it
worked it's not
our next clip is by Dr Sandra Richter Dr
Richter is a professor at Westmont
College in California
where she studies where she teaches
primarily environmental Theology and Old
Testament and in this clip she is going
to be talking about the passage in first
Timothy in other words the focus of this
problem is not women the focus of this
problem are people who are propagating
false Doctrine because they are too
uneducated or undereducated to know the
difference why does he tie it back to
even Adam I think he ties it back to
even Adam in the way that he does I
think he's actually quoting the wisdom
of sirach there's an illusion here it's
a aquarful book an inner testamental
piece
um
but
in the the situation in the garden Eve
was the one who was deceived and the
theory here is that it was Adam who was
actually taught the word by God
Eve was operating on hearsay Eve got
deceived therefore she was vulnerable
she was vulnerable that's why she got
deceived and Paul is using this as an
illustration does he tie this back to
the creation ordinance well folks most
the commentators you know what they have
to say at this little paragraph I have
no idea what Paul is doing that's the
general consensus on this piece I have
no idea what Paul is doing so if we have
no idea what Paul is doing it's probably
not a good idea to hang major policies
and doctrines on this business about the
eve and Adam piece but the kicker of all
this for me
um the kicker about this particular
passage is it occasional is it normative
is going back to that story about
Priscilla and Aquila in Acts 18
did you notice where Apollos was
preaching
now a certain Jew named Apollos in
alexandrian by birth an eloquent man
came to Ephesus
and he was mighty in the scriptures
where does Priscilla call him down and
instruct him in the Full Gospel
in Timothy's church and she is commended
for doing it
so if Priscilla is operating in her
teaching gift
even in Ephesus
apparently the problem in Timothy was
very particular
to this time this moment
and I would say this is an occasional
command as opposed to a normative all
right so Dr Richter says that most
commentators
do not know why Paul makes the
connection the creation connection there
in first Timothy chapter two
so why don't we go ahead and read the
passage first Timothy 2 8-15 I desire
them that in every place the men should
pray lifting holy hands without anger or
quarreling likewise also that women
should Adorn themselves in respectable
apparel with modesty and self-control
not with braided hair and gold or pearls
or costly attire but with what is proper
for women who profess godliness with
good works let a woman learn quietly
with all submissiveness I do not permit
a woman to teach or to exercise
authority over a man rather she is to
remain quiet for Adam was formed first
then Eve and Adam was not deceived but
the woman was deceived and became a
transgressor yet she will be saved
through childbearing if they continue in
faith and love and Holiness with
self-control
all right
um and as we move forward we see right
after that section the qualifications
for the uh pastors and deacons or the
overseers and the deacons same thing
um so this is very important to show
that
um this is how Paul lays out the
structure for leadership and the church
this is not some kind of um uh you know
situation just for that specific Church
and it's not Danny it's not
parenthetical it's like by the way Adam
was formed first and and it was a
surprise I think to both of us that she
said most commentators said they didn't
understand why it was there so of course
we look in commentary of course and we
have lots and lots of commentaries
between the both of us
so first of all even not in his new
testament commentary but in his in the
study Bible in his notes John McArthur
States the following about that Passage
um a woman's subordinate role did not
result after the fall as a cultural
chauvinistic Corruption of God's Perfect
Design rather God established her role
as part of his original creation God
made woman after man to be his suitable
helper the fall actually corroborates
God's divine plan of creation by Nature
Eve was not suited to assume the
position of ultimate responsibility by
leaving Adam's protection and usurping
his headship she was vulnerable and fell
thus confirming how important it was for
her to stay under the protection and
Leadership of her husband Adam then
violated his leadership role followed
Eve in her sin and plunged the human
race into sinfulness all connected with
violating God's planned role for the
Sexes ultimately the responsibility for
the fall still rests with Adam since he
chose to disobey God apart from being
deceived so there were two reasons Paul
makes there in Timothy the first one is
and the most important one is that Adam
was formed first and then the second one
is that the woman was deceived so there
I think think we have another
commentator we do in lensky
he says the following there are two
facts and the greater is stated first
although the second two is very decisive
Adam and Eve were not created at the
same time Paul's brief statement is to
the point Adam was created as the first
he existed for some time before Eve was
formed that certainly reveals God's
intention that Eve was not to direct
rule supervise him that she was not to
be the head but he it is said truly that
priority in creation includes dignity
God could have created both at the same
time he did not do this and so just the
very fact that Adam was created first
that's the first argument that Paul
makes and he is connecting the Genesis
account with the leadership and role of
a woman in the church
right so Dr Richter doesn't want to hang
any major policies on this scripture
because her argument is it's occasional
not normative meaning it's for that
church in that specific time which was
having very particular issues so it
shouldn't be something that we carry
down and build doctrines on she also
talks about
um the the whole Priscilla and Aquila
schooling Apollos in that clip and she
makes the argument that
um you know it was in Timothy's church
and so Priscilla must have been a leader
there and she was schooling Apollos well
we do know that Priscilla and Aquila
both School Apollos we know that we you
know and it wasn't that Apollos was
teaching inaccurate things about Christ
but he was teaching uh the doctrine that
he learned uh from John the Baptist yeah
and I think her point is it was in
Timothy's Church which was really messed
up at that time and needed all of this
help
um and when we don't even know if
Priscilla and Quilla were helping
Apollos during the time that Timothy was
a pastor right like she's really making
a lot of connections there that she's
not clarifying not at all right and so
he so let me ask you this
if
um and we were talking about this
earlier if we were sitting in church and
a man this is after church is over
and we're just hanging out with people
we're fellowshipping with people and a
man pulls us aside and asks us or you
know together Hey listen my wife is
really starting to get into Jesus
Calling
um you know what do you guys think of
that and if Robin began to talk about
Jesus calling him why it's wrong and why
it's unbiblical is she schooling that
guy well in a sense she is but she's not
holding a leadership position there in
the church she's not a pastor so she's
doing something that she is fine to do
um
yeah and Priscilla did not have any
Authority no
um over Apollo no no not at all and
speaking of Priscilla our next clip is
Dr Richter talking about Priscilla he
says great Chris
Priscilla and Aquila my fellow workers
in Christ Jesus fellow workers fellow
yoke bearers these two apparently have
shared Paul's tasks they have done what
Paul does with him and Priscilla is the
female member of this couple we go on
and read who for my life risked their
own necks to whom not only do I give
thanks but also all the churches of the
Gentiles and also greet the church that
is in their house oh they're pastoring a
church greet
um epinetos my beloved who is the
convert to Christ from Asia
now not only is Priscilla listed and
listed as a fellow laborer and as
someone who's apparently pastoring a
church if we flip back to chapter 18 of
the book of Acts we read a little bit of
the biography of Priscilla and Aquila
and their ministering and in Acts
chapter 18 verse 26 we read about a man
named Apollos who at least back when I
was doing my undergraduate degree was a
major
possibility for the author of the book
of Hebrews and Apollos although a good
man was apparently a little
short-sighted in his Theology and his
biblical education and so uh it will
start at verse 24. now a certain man
named Apollos in alexandrian by birth an
eloquent man came to Ephesus and he was
mighty in the scriptures this man had
been instructed in the way of the Lord
and being fervent in spirit he was
speaking and teaching accurately the
things concerning Jesus being acquainted
only with the baptism of John and he
began to speak and out boldly in the
synagogues but when Priscilla and Aquila
heard him they took him aside and
explained exeggiated narrated taught him
the way of God more accurately
so now Paul is busy greeting Priscilla
who is not only a fellow laborer but she
also specifically in the book is
identified as someone who instructed a
man an educated man
in the scriptures
and taught him how to preach more
importantly now that enough gives me
pause but then I noticed the order of
the names all right she says that
because the church met in Aquila and
Priscilla's home that that meant that
Priscilla was the one of the pastors
that her in both Aquila pastored
together I did get a kick out of that
how she jumped from greeting them in
their their church at their house to oh
they're pastoring a church that's that's
a huge leap I'm telling you
um so and there and there's nothing
nothing in scripture other than uh what
Paul says there in Romans chapter 16.
greet the greet the church that meets in
their house so so you found something in
a commentary about the church yeah
churches that met in homes yes this is
from Michael middendorf's uh Romans
commentary from the Concordia Commentary
series okay and he States finally Paul
references the Congress irrigation which
meets in their home as an Ephesus prisca
and Aquila hosted a Congregation of
Believers in Rome the fact that they
could afford such a sizable residence
corroborates the presumption that they
had financial means it further
illustrates the often overlooked point
that there were no buildings
specifically appropriated to church
purposes at this time
instead mix points out the local church
structure of the early church groups was
linked with what was commonly regarded
as the basic unit unit of society the
home
if there were no church buildings now
and Danny and I had a church in our home
it would be quite a leap to say I was
co-pastoring that church just because a
church met in our home yeah
um just because a church meets in a home
and the scriptures mentioned that does
not mean that the person who is hosting
uh the church in their home is a pastor
I mean again that's just a huge jump
right one other thing Richter mentions
in this clip is um right at the end she
says well let's look at the order of the
names now I think on Priscilla and
Aquila are mentioned six times in the
New Testament and four of those times
Priscilla's name comes first
she makes
the argument that Priscilla's name came
first because number one she was more
important in the church number two that
she probably was a better speaker and
that she was more widely
wanted on whatever speaking circuit
there was in the church at that time
yeah that's again that's just making
assumptions that aren't you know that
that aren't there
um one of the big reasons her name could
have been first was that she had a
higher Social stature than Aquila and
that's a one main reason that a woman's
name would be put first yeah but we
don't know so exactly
uh we have one more Richter clip before
we move on to other arguments and in
this one she's talking about Ephesians
4.
um let me say it another way don't allow
the kingdom to be hindered by failing to
use your gift and what about Ephesians 4
there is one body in one Spirit same
emphasis Paul just as also you were
called in one hope of your calling one
Lord one one baptism one God and Father
who's over all through all and in all
Paul's got a point
but to each one of us Grace was given
according to the measure of Christ's
gift and he gave some as Apostles
prophets evangelists pastors teachers
for what purpose the equipping of the
Saints for the work of service to the
building up of the body of Christ until
we all attain to the unity of the faith
and the knowledge of the Son of God to a
mature man to the measure of the stature
which belongs to the fullness of Christ
your gifting my gifting is a matter of
God's administration his management of
his body
he has entrusted gifts to each one of us
so that we can serve each other and
serve the church
he's done the choosing
your job is to do the faithful serving
in order that the kingdom may be built
so with those normative texts in mind
it would seem that if God has chosen to
gift a woman
with the gift of preaching it is my job
to support her in that gifting I don't
have the authority
to give her a different gift
or to call her gift into question not by
those texts that we've just reviewed
rather my task would be to support her
in that gifting
and to facilitate that gifting
that's what I would see
so she has kind of the same argument
there Robin that Melissa Scott had in
her argument for in our first video God
is Sovereign this is if I remember
correctly what Melissa Scott said God is
sovereign he chose me therefore if you
have a problem take it up with God
that's it so it's your job to support
these women who say God has called them
to be pastors
um and of course one issue with her
argument is of course God is Sovereign
and he does the choosing but is he going
to choose against what he's written in
the scriptures he's not but see their
argument is you can't use those very
clear passages of scripture that say a
women are not women isn't to teach
because that's not what Paul meant he
meant something else
it meant something else and that is just
they they have to do it's so much easier
to look at plain text like this and let
them speak for themselves rather than
trying to jump through hoops to make the
text fit your own Theology and if you
are a woman who wants to be a pastor but
you want to obey God you know swallow
that pill it's not easy sometimes
obeying what God is telling us in
scripture but it is always much more
spiritually fulfilling obeying him
rather than trying to find a way around
it and coming up with your own
interpretation of these scriptures right
we're moving on to a man named Matt
O'Reilly who has a video called theology
project and in this one he talks about
theology teachers you might imagine Adam
saying something like this to Eve you
know what Eve God said don't eat that
fruit you know what don't even touch it
or else we'll die and so you can see
Adam
by adding to God's commandment by adding
to the word of God did not Faithfully
execute his responsibility to teach and
instruct therefore Eve was in a position
to be more easily deceived that makes
great sense in the context of First
Timothy chapter 2 11-15
where we are dealing with the question
of learning and proper instruction
before you become a teacher if you don't
get the proper instruction you are more
liable to deception if you aren't
properly taught then you are not ready
to teach it was true for Adam it was
true for Eve it's true in first Timothy
with the women who are learning and not
get ready to teach and it's true in
first Timothy chapter 3 chapter 1 verses
three through seven where Paul says the
big thing I'm trying to deal with here
is making sure people are prepped
properly before we let them go teach
so in first Timothy a coherent reading
of this text that takes into account
Paul's use of Genesis the situation as
he describes it in first Timothy and the
language the specific language the
negative language for Authority that he
uses Paul is not forbidding women from
having Authority when it is properly
exercised he's not forbidding women from
having Authority in teaching in every
instance all the time he's saying women
should not become teachers until they
have properly been trained I think we
can see the sense in that whether it's
men or women
um a couple of things Danny that he
comments about so so Adam in telling Eve
God said don't eat the fruit and then he
says Adam must have told her also don't
touch it because that's what she tells
the serpent and Adam was an error
because he gave her more than God had
told him
and that made her more vulnerable when
what he told her would have made her
more cautious if you're not supposed to
eat the fruit and don't even pick it up
don't touch it you know be like a mom's
saying don't even look at it get away
from it that should have made her more
cautious not more vulnerable so I don't
think she fell because of Adam's poor
teaching
and just you know like I said
it is a huge stretch it's like
um looking at a clear passage something
that is so clear and just saying to
yourself Well it can't mean that if
there's no way so we have to come up
with something outside of the what the
Bible says to try to connect this you
know with uh the ability to have women
leaders and women Pastors in the church
so we did read the passage in first
Timothy that he's talking about that he
says it really means that women just
need to be taught before they teach men
and I just wanted to read a couple of
those verses over again yes
um starting verse 11 and 12. let a woman
learn quietly with all submissiveness I
do not permit a woman to teach or do
exercise authority over a man rather if
she is to remain quiet now how easy
would it have been for Paul to add
a a phrase right there that said until
until she is trained properly and like
Danny you pointed out right after that
passage about women Paul starts talking
about the qualifications of an overseer
and and the main qualification the first
one of the first ones is to be the
husband of one wife yeah and if he
really intended on women being overseers
in the church that would have come
through very clearly in one of the
passages where he talks about overseers
Paul is clear there's just not much more
you can say about it
um Matt O'Reilly goes on to talk it now
a little bit more about women preachers
does the Bible forbid women from
preaching or teaching or holding
pastoral offices
we have to answer that it is wildly
irresponsible to say that the Bible
clearly forbids women from having
pastoral preaching or teaching
responsibilities there are a multitude
of questions that come before us when we
look carefully at the texts of scripture
in question in context at the very least
the text doesn't clearly forbid women
from speaking or teaching in every
instance and it likely as best we can
tell
only forbids women from speaking and
teaching when they haven't yet been
properly trained once a woman has been
trained and prepared to lead the church
in a teaching role by all means that's
an appropriate thing he says it's wildly
irresponsible to say the Bible forbids
women from having preaching or teaching
responsibilities I would say it's widely
irresponsible to take clear biblical
texts and make them say something that
they don't say by stretching and trying
to find something that you can use in
order to build your own interpretation
it's just very dangerous so he's the one
that is actually being wildly
irresponsible there right and
um did you want to share that verse in
Titus yes I do about women teaching and
and how many opportunities and roles we
do have Titus 2 3-5 older women likewise
are to be reverent in Behavior not
Slanders or slaves too much wine they're
to teach what is good and so train the
young women to love their husbands and
children to be self-controlled pure
working at home kind and submissive to
their own husbands that the word of God
may not be reviled so let me ask a
question Robin in that passage right
there does Paul call women teachers
yes he does and teach what is good they
teach what is good they're teaching the
younger women so there is not that this
is a a false argument to make
that another false argument another
false argument to make that women cannot
be teachers in the church we are not
saying and Paul is not saying and none
of the authors of scripture are saying
that women cannot be teachers in the
church they can they can't teach men
they're the older women are to teach the
younger women the younger women are to
teach their children and it goes on and
on
we're going to get back to Rick Warren
now who had his three scriptures that he
um he claims changed his mind and we're
going to Acts 2. am I was the day of
Pentecost do you think
the second thing that changed my mind
was the day of Pentecost two things
happened on that day we know
the first day of the church the church
as its birth is the church at its best
on that day in at Pentecost we know
women were in the upper room
we know women were filled with the Holy
Spirit we know that women were
preaching in languages that other people
couldn't hear to a mixed audience we
know women it wasn't just men women were
preaching on the day of Pentecost how do
we know that because Peter felt
obligated to explain it
and so in Acts chapter 2 verses uh uh uh
uh 17 18 he goes hey guys these people
aren't drunk
what you're seeing was foretold by Joel
it was going to happen and he said so he
explains why you're now seeing women
preaching on the very first day of the
church he explains it and he says this
is that that Joel predicted and here's
what he says
in the last days and clearly that means
Peter thought the last days began with
the birth of the church
we're in the latter of the last days now
we don't know how many more there will
be but the last days began with the
birth of church Peter says in the last
days I will pour out my spirit on All
Flesh All Flesh your sons and daughters
will prophesy that's different than the
Old Testament Russell I've I've looked
at over 300 commentaries on those verses
and it's interesting to me that almost
everybody goes yep in in the church
everybody gets to play everybody gets to
preach everybody gets to prophesy
and the people who don't like that
ignore that verse John MacArthur doesn't
even cover that verse he just skips over
lots and lots and lots of stuff to talk
about in that clip first of all Robin it
is not clear and we're going to look at
this passage of scripture that Rick
Warren mentions in Acts chapter 2. it is
not clear that women were speaking in
tongues and that women were doing uh or
first of all he called it preaching it
wouldn't have been preaching uh because
the church wasn't even formed yet I mean
there had been no there was no structure
they were still using the synagogue
model there was no it was just the very
beginning here but secondly there's just
no it's not clear whether there were
women that were speaking in tongues
it could have just been the apostles
themselves it could have been and I
think like a judish
um says that it was probably just the
apostles but you can read it either way
I think the point is it is not it is not
clear right
um and really quickly before we get into
the passage
um he at the end of that clip he says
John McArthur does not approach these
verses at all if you go on YouTube and
type in Rick Warren says something about
John MacArthur I know polite leader has
done a video refuting Warren's comments
and she's doing exactly what John
MacArthur says about this passage
um yeah I've never been
ever thought that John MacArthur would
be one to ignore
no any biblical text no no no let's look
at the passage okay so we're going to
read Acts 2 starting in verse 1. when
the day of Pentecost arrived they were
all together in one place and suddenly
there came from Heaven a sound like a
mighty rushing wind and it filled the
entire house where they were sitting and
divided tongues as a fire appeared to
them and rested on each one of them and
they were all filled with the Holy
Spirit and began to speak in other
tongues as the spirit gave them
utterance now there were dwelling in
Jerusalem Jews devout men from every
nation under heaven
and at this sound the multitude came
together and they were bewildered
because each one was hearing them speak
in his own language and they were amazed
and astonished saying are not all these
who are speaking galileans and how is it
that we hear each one of us in his own
native language parthians and medes and
elamites and residents of Mesopotamia
Judea and Cappadocia Pontius and Asia
rygia and pamphyla Egypt and parts of
Libya belonging to Cyrene and visitors
from Rome both Jew Jews and proselytes
cretans and Arabians we hear them
telling in our own tongues the mighty
works of God and all were amazed and
perplexed saying to one another what
does this mean but others mocking said
they're filled with new wine but Peter
standing with the eleven lifted up his
voice and addressed them men of Judea
and all who dwell in Jerusalem let this
be known to you and give ear to my words
for these people are not drunk as you
suppose since it is only the third hour
of the day but this is what was uttered
through the prophet Joel and in the last
days it shall be God declares that I
will pour out my spirit on All Flesh and
your sons and your daughters shall
prophesy and your young men shall see
visions and your old men shall dream
dreams even on my male servants and
female servants in those days I will
pour out my spirit and they shall
prophesy and I will show wonders in the
heavens above and signs on the earth
below blood and fire and Vapor of smoke
the sun shall be turned to Darkness and
the moon to blood before the day of the
Lord comes the great and magnificent day
and it shall come to pass that everyone
who calls upon the name of the Lord
shall be saved all right very long
passage to read but there's a couple of
things that we need to point out here
again we are not saying that women were
not speaking in tongues there but when
you look closely at Acts chapter 2 it's
very possible that they weren't
especially if you look at verse 7 and
they were amazed and astonished saying
are not all these who were speaking
galileans who are the galileans well
that was the apostles now it's possible
that women were there and women were
galileans as well but when you think of
the galileans you're you're really
especially thinking of uh the Disciples
of Christ and would they not have
mentioned that that that was also very
strange not only are there galileans
speaking but a bunch of women women are
doing this yeah yeah and then you
pointed something out uh earlier as we
were going over this Robin verse 14
um so after he taught me this she she
taught me she schooled me
verse 14 after
[Music]
um the speaking in tongues and they were
commenting on it Peter standing with the
11 lifted up his voice and addressed
them so where did the women go and why
at this point if women were being given
the authority to preach at that point
why weren't some of the women standing
with Peter Exactly and to call this even
even if the women were there speaking in
tongues to call this preaching and to
say this passage changed my mind about
women pastors and leaders doesn't make
any sense either because the church
hadn't even this is the birth of the
church there was no structure formed or
anything yet before that uh the the God
fears the Gentiles and the Jews they
were all meeting in synagogues
um and in the very beginning of Acts
that's where the Apostle the apostles
went to teach and preach their message
of Christ's Resurrection
um or the synagogues so this was not
there was a structure in the church at
this time and and Rick Warren um points
out the prophecy of Joel that your sons
and your daughters shall prophesy and so
he's saying yes all can prophesy well is
prophesying the same as being an
overseer or a leader no and we do know
that Philip's daughters and acts his
daughters were prophets or Prophet s's
or whatever you want to call them but
they were not leaders in the church
because when Paul set the order up he uh
made sure that that the structure was
the way it was that the men were the
head the men were the leaders and I
think we've talked about this in the um
other video Robin that you can also go
back to the Old Testament a lot of
people like to bring up Deborah and like
to bring up
um Miriam
and others who prophesied that's fine
but if you look at the temple structure
or the Tabernacle when the uh when the
children of Israel were in the wandering
in the desert or when they first took
over and it before the temple was built
and even at the temple there were no
women priests those who were leading the
uh children of Israel were men in the uh
worship uh structure of Israel yes
so I think this is a really
um interesting passage that Rick Warren
chose to use as interesting is a good
word yes
Rick Warren's third scripture General
please third scripture for why he
believes women can be pastors and then
the third thing that changed my mind she
none of this had to do with culture had
to do with scripture
and then all of a sudden I noticed that
the very first sermon
the very first Christian sermon the
message of the Gospel of good news of
the Resurrection Jesus chose the woman
to deliver it to men
he had Mary Magdalene go
and tell the disciples
now that clearly wasn't an accident
it was unintentional it's a whole new
world baby
now he has a woman go tell the apostles
you got on can a woman Teach an apostle
evidently did it on the first day he
chose her to be the first preacher of
the Gospel so you would after the last
three years you would support
men and women as Elders a senior pastor
as as everything within the church
I I would I would I would but I but
here's what I say be because I have to
say this is my interpretation I have to
say with humility it doesn't bother me
if you disagree with me for 2 000 years
the church has debated the role of women
in culture but to make it a a litmus
test for are you a Baptist or not is
nonsense
okay Robin he calls uh the good news
that Jesus has risen from the dead a
Christian sermon the first Christian
sermon so if you're a lady and you're
sitting at work and you're sharing the
gospel with someone
is that a sermon because you're sharing
good news and that's what he's trying to
do he's trying to
um he's trying to which I just don't
understand take this passage that you're
getting ready to read and make this
about women preachers doesn't make any
sense John 2017 starting in verse 17
Jesus said to her do not cling to me for
I have not yet ascended to the father
but go to my brothers and say to them I
am ascending to my father and your
father to my God and your God Mary
Magdalene went and announced to the
disciples I have seen the Lord and that
he had said these things to her okay
there you go first Christian sermon
that's not a sermon female Pastor Yeah
well yeah first female Pastor first
Christian sermon
um she's announcing to the apostles that
she saw the Lord that's not her
preaching a sermon and that's not in a
church setting because it again the
church had not even like like the Holy
Spirit hadn't even Fallen yet Pentecost
had not even happened yet the church was
not birthed yet this is pre- uh
Pentecost so there's just no way and
what passage did you say if you were
picking a passage to use for a woman it
was the woman yes I would have used
probably if I was Rick Warren I might
have used uh John chapter 4 and the
woman at the well because she went to
the city after Jesus uh after she
realized Christ was the Messiah and she
went into Samaria and grabbed all the
guys that come with me and see who see I
you know I found the Messiah that I
would have probably gone there I mean
because he's doing he that's pre-church
as well and he's doing the same thing
with the resurrection so it just doesn't
I don't know yeah but another another
very weak reason for believing that
women should be pastors and Danny when
you look at how Jesus treated women in
general it was so far removed from how
they were treated in society even that
example you used of the woman at the
well yep what did the disciples come
back and they said in verse 27 I believe
it was yes just then his disciples came
back they marveled that he was talking
with a woman
um he taught women women sat at his feet
and were taught they were considered to
be part of his larger disciple group yes
absolutely so folks um these are just
some examples
of what you're going to hear when people
are trying to promote women pastors and
women teachers within the church and
again we don't have a problem with women
teachers the Bible doesn't have a
problem with women teachers it just
directs women to teach other women and
so I hope this video has been helpful I
hope that if you know someone who's
struggling with this topic that this
will be helpful to them as well thanks
for watching and Lord will and we'll see
you next week bye
foreign
[Music]