one of those things you should do is you
should in your letter tell the the
seller I am not a Wall Street buyer I'm
an individual I want to you know keep
this for myself please don't sell this
to a corporation and take this house out
of you know commission
um and out of the pool for you know
potentially the rest of time Carol Roth
a two-time New York Times best-selling
author and the author of the new
bestseller you will own nothing it is
great to welcome you back on the show
and Carol great to see you again thank
you so much for joining me yeah it's so
nice to be back with you Julie I always
enjoy uh chatting with you and uh now
now I got another vest to talk about I
love it and I know the last time we
spoke earlier this year you were teasing
this book and I was so curious because
the time we were talking about the
nonsense around ESG but I do want to
just delve in to the book and yeah maybe
a bit more of the big picture because
you talk about a financial War if you
will um this kind of uh World War f as
you put it in the book so I was hoping
we could kind of start let's start a
frame at the big picture yeah so World
War f is a financial World War where you
are f'd so the F gets to stand for two
things there
um and the challenge is that we have a
shifting Global Financial order it
sounds very conspiratorial it's based
entirely on history so the the Global
Financial order where the US has been at
the center of the Global Financial
Universe holding the world's Reserve
currency you know we're about 80 years
into our run before us it was the
British before the British it was the
Dutch this is something that changes
over on a regular basis now we have a
hard time believing that because we've
known nothing else which as I said it's
been around for 80 years we've lived
through this incredible period of
prosperity so we feel very Invincible
about this entire scenario however I
would imagine that the British uh Forest
probably felt very Invincible about that
as well as as we're talking here you
know this is we're recording the week
that the U.S just got their second
credit downgrade this time from Fitch uh
entirely not surprising other than the
fact that you know many years too late
we have an unwieldy debt load we have an
unsafe unsustainable fiscal trajectory
which has been said so historically in
treasury literature and CBO literature
uh the IMF you know in terms of you know
when that debt load becomes you know too
large you know they say that comes
around 70 to 80 percent of GDP
long time ago we have you know this this
move for D dollarization around the
globe so you know there are all these
signposts that things aren't quite as
rosy and so with that and this New World
Order which again not conspiratorial
it's on the White House's website you
could go and see Joe Biden's speech to
the Business Roundtable March 21st 2022
and he talks about this uh but with this
shift you know if you're somebody who is
in what I we we call the elites you know
which is you know a little bit hard to
Define but the people who are the
wealthiest and the most well connected
and often involved in some of the
central planning Endeavors you know if
you're seeing the stakes shifting
globally do you just kind of sit back
Julia and hope things work out for you
or do you proactively try to control all
the resources so I think most people
again would agree that it's pretty much
human nature that if you are well
wealthy well connected you you want to
keep that position and so you've got you
know the fed and the government at this
desperate point trying to hold on to
their power you have the wef and the UN
and big businesses trying to take
advantage of this shift and then you
have this weird thing going on with big
Tech who is trying to rent our lives
back to us uh as a service or a
subscription and so those are really the
players in this world war F and they all
have their own uh agendas you know so to
speak and you know sometimes they may
work together but a lot of times they're
working alone but for us that means
we've got to get Battle ready and we've
got to fight back again yeah and to that
point too because
um you've written three books and I
think one of the common themes that come
up in your books is this notion of the
underdog I think that's one of the folks
uh that's kind of the Persona that you
write for is getting that Persona ready
I think it'll be helpful Carol if we can
kind of revisit maybe it's a bit of your
background to yeah and what was kind of
the impetus for writing this book in
particular
yeah so I'm definitely I consider myself
the underdog and uh and I think you're
right I think that that is who I always
a champion for you know I grew up in a
family
um you know a few Generations you know
into into the American dream
um my grandparents and great
grandparents escaped religious
persecution you know they came to the
United States uh you know they were
super poor my father was Blue Collar he
was an electrician and you know he
worked really hard to set up and allow
me to see if the American dream in this
incredible way and I'm incredibly
grateful for that opportunity and
understand the foundation and the
structure around me that let me took a
bit take advantage of that which would
have been very different if they had
stayed in the the previous countries
where they were all from
um and so you know as I see this shift
in change in a way where it's harder for
the average Americans who seize that
American Dream where the the change has
gone from this abundance mentality where
the pi gets bigger and we all get more
slices and bigger slices
um or you know that the rising tide lips
votes it's really shifted into a you
versus me type of mentality which I a
poor and is very against the the sort of
free market principles and individualist
principles that I stand for and so as I
see these shifts happening I like to to
do something about it I like to do what
I can which is you Empower people with
the knowledge and hopefully give them
some ideas on how to change that so I
was looking at all these different
things happening whether that be you
know this this informal social credit
system that has emerged ESG which as you
mentioned we talked about the last time
we were together
um things like the debasement of the
dollar and the potential for the
emergence of a central bank digital
currency this big Tech issue the fact
that people can't buy houses and that
Wall Street has moved into the market it
is competing with you to buy a single
family home the fact that Millennials
are are making more but their balance
sheets are wrapped and so they have less
weld like all these things
and I'm going like there's got to be
some connection to this and uh you know
just hit me one day as it was floating
around in my mind it's one step one two
three boom you will owe nothing that me
my head soft floating around the
internet that stood for anti-ownership
the end of property and uh you know
Julia obviously you know as well as I do
being around the financial sector for as
long as we both have that wealth comes
from ownership so when you have these
wealthy well-connected people saying
that you know you'll owe nothing and
you'll be happy that private property
will come to an end I go no that's not
how it works that people throughout
history who haven't had property have
been unfree and unhappy and many times
have ended up dead yeah I think Carol
that's a great outline too for this
conversation and these were all themes
that come up in the book in various
chapters maybe we can start to explore
some of them and one of those being
um you mentioned in informal social of
social credit kind of system let's frame
that up let's explore that and why um
you think that is
so let's start backwards with China who
probably has the most formalized social
credit system because I think this goes
in steps it goes from cancel culture to
sort of informal social credit to a very
formalized one that has you know some
sort of grades attached and in China
it's it's probably the most formalized
on the planet although maybe not as
formalized as some people think because
it's not done on a jurisdiction by
jurisdiction basis so some of them have
number grades and some of them have
letter grades but the basic thesis is
the central planners in that case you
know the members of the Communist Party
have things that they want to
incentivize and disincent device and
they do that by giving you scores and
putting you on blacklists and red lists
and so basically uh you know if you do
things like go and visit your elderly
parents you're going to get a good Mark
but at the same time if you don't you'll
get a bad Mark if you cheat on video
games you're going to get a bad Mark if
you give blood you're going to get a
good Mark if you say bad thing things
about the government on social media
you're gonna get a bad Mark and so you
know these things kind of go around and
come into a system which is really crazy
um there's been you know you may have
seen a video that's making the rounds on
social media over the last couple of
weeks about this uh person getting a
phone call and the siren starts blaring
and it says the person on the other end
owes lots of debt and we need you if you
pick up this phone call to tell them to
pay their debts and I share a story in
the book of this orwellian scenario
where this uh this man named Lao Juan
who talked to NPR you saw his his face
on a billboard like like you know like
right out of an Orwell book and it said
this person is untrustworthy and it has
untrustworthy score and he was a coal
intermediary and he got completely
screwed over when the government changed
its policy on coal yet they still you
know made him this out this this pariah
so take that back to the United States
because you know somebody might be
watching this and going okay but that's
not happening here yet but in many ways
it is it's just on a less formalized
basis do you think about social credit
um a lot of people think that's you know
meant to censor people's speech alone
but it also really comes after them
economically and I don't think enough
people have been making that leg and so
it's sort of three different ways
whether it's cancel culture we're a bit
more formalized but they come after
people's social standing so your ability
to participate in society and get
financial opportunities they often come
after your job which is your income that
you can take in and invest and live on
and in some cases they come for your
assets so let's just look at coven for
example you know regardless of where you
stand on covid that ended up into a
social credit system you know if you
didn't wear a mask and you didn't take a
vax people were coming after you they
were showing your pictures social media
they might have been calling your boss
they were saying you were a bad person
if you didn't have that vax card you
couldn't get into a restaurant once
those were actually open and participate
in society so you know all those things
are your social standing that they were
coming after
um we saw that the executive order that
was eventually struck down but either
directly or by sort of a coercion Factor
the Biden Administration said if you
didn't have the backs you couldn't work
in certain businesses certain industries
and so you know thousands of people lost
their jobs people who you know Focus
their entire lives on really critical
skills and by the way many people who
had been deemed essential workers and
heroes just months before the vaccine
was available and exposed themselves all
during covet to make sure everybody else
got what they needed
and then they came after businesses
right they actually took assets they
shut down businesses if you go up to
Canada and you were part of the uh the
freedom Convoy the Choppers there you
know They seized bank accounts and you
even had big Tech here in the U.S
colluding with the Canadian government
you know there was a huge GoFundMe
campaign that raised around 10 million
Canadian dollars and that was entirely
shut down and when another one popped up
hackers came in and said you know not
only are we going to try to disrupt this
but if you contributed this we're going
to leak your name and we're going to
ruin your social crime
so you know we've already seen that as a
mechanism to say if you're not going
along with whatever the given narrative
is that we are going to punish you
financially and basically if you you
take that and say well then how does
that become that formalized state system
uh you obviously have to have the state
involved which they were and we saw that
you know in the Twitter files and then
some of the Facebook and meta messages
that they've been coordinating to get
people de-platformed or their voices
down their social credit down you need
technology to be able to gather this
data and analyze it and store it at
scale which obviously we have and you
need to have buy-in and that was the
craziest thing right during covid is
that you had your neighbors and your
family members saying no you know I'm
gonna turn you in I'm gonna tell on you
don't show up to Thanksgiving or
Christmas you know whatever it was to
assist with this system so they've
proven that that works and then you know
to the extent that we get a central bank
digital currency that could eventually
be tied into your access to the money
that you work very hard for
and to that point too like is that kind
of this phenomenon you bring up in the
book too where
um people become useful idiots in some
of these policies
it is so this is something I actually
um borrowed and sort of enhanced from a
speech I saw by Peter Thiel he was
talking to my good friend Alex Epstein
who does incredible work around fossil
fuels he wrote yeah on my shelf yeah
fossil future check out the book um and
so they were having this conversation
actually run out to the book launch and
he was talking about this model which I
talked about in the book and then kind
of you know rewrote in my terms but
basically you get these good ideas you
know that sounds like it makes sense oh
we don't want to spread misinformation
okay that makes sense but then there
becomes this profiteering infrastructure
around it and then eventually the useful
idiots entrench it in society and these
useful idiots I'd say get something
called Roe which is return on ego
so they get to put an emoji in their bio
or they get to wear a t-shirt or put a
sign on their lawn or maybe they get a
visit to the White House or they just
gonna feel like they're part of that
group that is just morally right and
morally Superior and you know those are
the folks who not only don't push back
but really kind of give you that that
push that entrenches this in society
without the useful idiots
um you know whether they know what
they're doing or not we cannot have
these things become you know come back
at full scale if we all just rejected it
it doesn't happen so unfortunately as we
talk about a lot of these ideas they
kind of follow this model standpoint
where maybe it's a good idea in theory
it gets completely corrupted by Central
planning people extract a lot of money
but it's the useful idiots who then
allow for that to happen at scale over a
long period of time yeah and like I
guess sometimes we have to like reflect
and look in the mirror and like have we
been a useful idiot at some Point too
because I gotta say I read your um your
book the war on small business and it
was so enlightening to Carol like the
anecdotes and the stories you told it
really made me think like wait what did
what how did I feel back back during the
pandemic when was going on did I buy
into that or um yeah I've been a useful
idiot yeah no I definitely have I could
tell you I have I know I have
um but yeah it's just like it's what I
really like about your work is it kind
of forces you to put yourself on the
grills too and really thinking like am I
am I thinking independently
um so it's just one thing I really
respect about it thank you and and I
think that's you know that's an
important point that we should
underscore for people is that we've all
we're not perfect for human beings we've
all been useful idiots we've all been
duped this is a very very sophisticated
efforts and again things that make sense
on a basic you know human level that get
bastardized and it's so it's okay to
have been in that space it's okay if
you're still in that space But it's to
now reflective and see if you can then
identify what's going on and see it for
what it is and then move it in a
different space in fact
um Julie if I can share the Twilight
Zone story from the book you know if you
caught on to that one but um you know I
think this is a really good way to frame
things up because a lot of times we see
people who are you know running around
and they're saying I'm just trying to
help Society I'm and for the children
and for you and for the Earth and you
know I'm a big student of human nature
and I can tell you that technology
evolves and you know the world around us
evolves but human nature remains very
constant which is why we keep having
these same discussions these same issues
over and over again and why they say
history Rhymes the way that it does so
the thing I want you guys to remember is
this Twilight Zone episode where you
have the aliens who come down to earth
and uh people have already like oh why
are the aliens here and uh the aliens
said well they're just here to help out
the people they just want to help man
you know the aliens have all this
technology they see that that the
earthlings have famine and War and you
know they've eradicated it so they
figure just out of the goodness of their
hearts that they are going to share that
with the people of Earth so people of
Earth rightly are skeptical and they put
the alien and throw a lie detector test
and he passes through flying colors they
go okay well maybe we'll try it out so
they start trying some of the technology
that starts to work well as this is all
going on
um this person from the CIA starts to
work on this manual that the alien has
uh unwittingly left behind and they were
able to crack the code of the title and
the title is to serve man and they go
well it's a noble cause you know that's
what they're saying they're here to help
us they're a disturbed man so sounds
good to me so things go along and then
the aliens say well why don't you come
up to our planet you know we'll get you
on the spaceship and we'll send you up
there or people line up and they're
going to visit you know this new planet
and one of the CAA guys is like I want
to go that sounds amazing so he gets out
and you know starts to walk up and now
the other person from the CIA has
cracked the rest of the book and to
serve man Julia what is it I know it's
it's a cookbook it's a cookbook yeah and
I just feel like that says everything is
that we see these people saying I'm here
to serve man
but to Surf mad as a cookbook so just
remember that next time somebody's doing
something out of the good of their heart
as you put it in the book that ideas
often get sold with a positive or
misleading rapper yes
um I guess I'll ask you one more
question on cancel culture before we
move on do you think the pendulum is
going to swing on that do you because
like the economic punishment kind of
saying like Okay you messed up
you the punishment is like economic it's
Financial usually like lose your job
lose a paycheck and whatnot do you think
that that pendulum will swing or what
are some of the other consequences of
that I guess who maybe people kind of
are afraid to express how they might
feel or you have less free speech
so here's again going back to human
nature is that there's something in
human nature about mobs and bullying and
when people get into that scenario right
that that's it's not something entirely
new right they pick on the the poor kid
at school who's got you know weird
glasses and you see a parents put them
in a strange shirt or you know whatever
it is so people from a human level you
know throughout history Salem Witch
Trials whatever it is they like to gang
up on other people and uh and punish
them I don't know why but that just is a
thing that that continues to happen
um so I I would like to say that I think
cancel culture will go away but as we've
looked at it the people who were
anti-cancel culture have become engaged
in it themselves as you know under a
different rapper it's no it's not cancer
culture it's just a boycott I mean
whatever it is
so I hope there's more awareness of it
and that there's more pushback and
perhaps that it it doesn't become as
damaging as it was but I do think
there's just something in people that
you know when things don't go their way
or when you get too many people together
there's always that desire to uh you
know to punish someone because you don't
believe with to believe the same thing
or you don't agree with that person and
I think you know as long as we stay
polarized as a as a nation
um I think that is gonna you know
unfortunately show up and unfortunately
we're also seeing that at the business
level as we've talked about with ESG
which is business social credit so I I'm
hoping that at least in that realm there
will be more pushback and when we see
The Economic Consequences of that that
maybe that will shift but I'm less
optimistic about individuals
but I I would love to be proven wrong
yeah I want to hear more um on the ESG
side of things because I know even in
our last conversation that was
um an area that I know you're interested
in bringing up um let's explore that
further
yeah so as we move from Individual
social credits you know in China they're
formalized social credit system actually
started with businesses first it's
actually more robust around business
because in the CCP as they've moved a
little bit more towards capitalism there
are all these individuals who've gotten
lots of power and built these businesses
that now threaten the government's power
and so they have had to put those people
in their place and so that's where
they've started with business social
credit and then you know have that be um
sort of a warning sign for individuals
you know poor Jack ma uh founder of
Alibaba we all know that he was
disappeared for a little while but no no
no he's fine he just decided to give up
stakes in his company out of the
goodness of his heart I'm sure
um so you know coming back taking that
back to the U.S ESG is what I call
business social credit it's a bunch of
people who want to influence what
businesses are doing they want to to
shape things they're political their
social whims using businesses and they
don't actually have a stake they call
themselves stakeholders but they're not
owners they're not shareholders they
have not taken any risk whether putting
in their Blood Sweat and Tears to own a
piece of the business or putting up
their Capital putting that at risk to
own the piece of the business in fact
some of the purveyors are these you know
very large asset managers like BlackRock
who actually use our Capital if you have
a pension or a retirement fund they're
using that Capital to affect change and
this is not my opinion this is what they
have told their own shareholders and
CEOs so one of the things I did in the
book which I thought was really
important
is not only trying to take conspiracy
theory out of this but where I could I
let the the people in The Entity speak
for themselves so I just reprinted you
know little excerpts from BlackRock CEO
letters and shareholder letters and I
invite you to go re read them online to
see what they say but they say listen
you know we think these things are
important and we control a lot of
capital and if you
um are inclined to not do these things
then we will vote against you you know
as a as a uh c-level executive or as a
director they say these things so
obviously I'm paraphrasing it but go
read what they say
um and so it's really scary in a lot of
fronts one is just the pure profiteering
aspect of it there's a lot of ESG which
is just entirely a scam they call it
green washing so if you are a fund maybe
an ETF that doesn't have a lot of fees
to be made really small margins you can
now say this is an ESG fund we're really
focused on ESG whatever that means and
charge a higher fee so there have been
around the globe a lot of you know
Regulators who kind of go on after some
of these uh ESG folks that are accused
of green washing and just just using it
to extract fees and in fact the former
head
of sustainable Investing For BlackRock
Tariq fancy wrote a piece in the Wall
Street Journal which I also quote in the
book that basically said you know and
he's a big environmentalist that he
doesn't think ESG does anything for the
planet he just thinks it's a great way
for Wall Street to make money so that's
somebody who you know was led with this
charge and believes very heavily in
climate issues who's saying that so
that's one thing the second thing which
I think is even more scary is the idea
that they are subjugating the rights of
shareholders the basically the fiduciary
standard that has been in place for
decades upon decades is now being pushed
to the side as saying you can prioritize
these other things that are being pushed
by people that have absolutely nothing
to do with the business and so the idea
that your Capital may not you know earn
that same return on investment because
it's being distracted and that it's
being used to affect change in a way
that could be harmful or at least kill
some Innovation and opportunity from the
business it's just an incredibly
horrible thing and it has tentacles
everywhere you know it's been pushed for
a very long time it's very packaged in a
factory package so often that Larry Fink
who is the head of BlackRock is very
upset we've all figured this out and
said at a recent uh conference that he
doesn't want to use ESG anymore because
it's been politicized now it's not that
he wants to change the behaviors he just
wants to change the label because we
figured it out and it's not the label
that I have the issue with it's the
underlying uh you know structure that
goes along with yeah like changing yeah
trying to change the language if you
will another example though either you
provided in the book about the social
credit side of things on ESG Elon Musk
and Tesla being dropped from there he
was dropped from the what
yeah yeah like ex Exxon was on there and
this this was staggering so that that's
one of the weird things about ESG is
when people are like oh can you define
it I'm like no I can't because they've
left it intentionally vague you know
they we know what environmental social
and governmental like those those
headline words are but what do those
mean and what's included and this is
something that shifts on a regular basis
you know weapons were bad and they were
anti-esg until there was a war with
Ukraine and they wanted to you know
launder money through Ukraine and now
weapons are good so it's one of those
things that's very fungible and changing
all the time so when Elon Musk decided
that he was going to buy the platform
formerly known as Twitter like the
artist formerly known as presence I will
not call it whatever it's called now but
Twitter to most of us colloquially and
um you know he took a anti-censorship
free speech stance and whether you like
him whether or not you think that he
actually did that whether you like what
he did with the platform this is not
commentary on this this is just
commentary on the fact that that's what
was put out there and there were a lot
of people that were not happy that
Twitter was no longer going to censor
the voices that they didn't like they
didn't like that this was an anti-social
credit initiative
so S and P went and at that point in
time took Tesla out of their main ESG
fund and the reason was basically you
know the behaviors of the CEO it wasn't
because they didn't think Tesla itself
was necessarily an anti-esg company it's
a green vehicle company it's probably
been at the front
um you know of the you know
quote-unquote Green movement again
whatever you think of that you know when
you think of you know who's made a lot
of progress in whatever that realm is
it's been Tesla so they they took out
Tesla and they left an Exxon a fossil
fuel company and this was a measure to
punish and Bully Elon Musk for the
things that they did I mean it was just
so blatant and out in the open this is
the world's richest man if they can use
this to bully the world's richest man
you know what shot do the rest of us
have so I thought that was very
eye-opening and I think it's one of
those reasons why Elon has gone around
social media saying that ESG is the
devil and he's he's right and he has a
personal stake here because it came
after him in a completely you know
social credit bullying Mafia Manor yeah
um I do want to bring up another area
that was eye-opening in the book
and that was housing specifically being
able to buy your first home like realize
that American dream I want to hear
because did any of that research within
that topic surprise you or shock you
like can you share some of the findings
some of the stats in there were quite
eye-opening completely shocked me and
this is another thing you know I've been
in the financial industry I've been
covering Wall Street a recovering
investment banker uh you've done the
same and when I heard this I was still
surprised even though I had been through
Occupy Wall Street and had been through
this you know entire fed you know
disrupting risk in the market scenario
but doing the research and putting this
all together was crazy so when we go
back to the Great Recession financial
crisis obviously I think people know
that Wall Street got a bailed out and
Main Street got stuck and almost six
million people lost their houses to
foreclosures in a short sale sales very
different outcomes and then the fed you
came up with this ridiculous policy that
lowered interest rates almost nine of
the 15 years of suppressed interest
rates were zero interest rates uh policy
and that they printed trillions upon
trillions of dollars and that gave Wall
Street cheap Capital abundant Capital to
do what they needed to do and so I think
the part that we already knew is that
Wall Street used that money to drive up
assets there was asset inflation but we
don't call that inflation because the
wealthy and well-connected benefit from
it so that's good even though the Savers
and the retirees got completely screwed
and it exacerbated non-merit-based
inequality
um but you know that's not counted and
when they ran out of places to find
yields they what like oh well what where
else you know where else can we look and
all of a sudden 2010 comes along and you
get institutions go hey what about
single family homes
now what you have to understand about
single-family homes that makes this so
staggering it is the largest asset on
household balance sheets across the U.S
this is how individuals and families
make money and preserve Legacy wealth
and there's probably a lot of reasons
there's one thing is obviously it's a
picture of the American dream and I
think that's you know why it is but it's
also duration you know we know that for
people to gain wealth you have to stick
in over long periods of time you have to
ride out those Cycles those ups and
downs and when individuals have homes
you know unlike stocks you know they may
see a stock go down and panic and sell
it a low but they're not on Zillow every
day going oh what's my house worth today
because you know they're living in it
they're consuming it their kids are in
school what not so people hold on to
those for longer periods of time
so 2010 comes about and it is the first
time that there is Meaningful
institutional capital in the single
family home market and now you get
companies that are backed by Wall Street
they're backed by blackrocks and
JPMorgan Chase and Captain what all
these people by the way who are ESG
they're they're social they want good
social outcomes which I guess doesn't
include people owning their own homes
because they're backing Wall Street to
compete with you and so they have gone
out and they have bought up huge amount
of problems CoreLogic said that at the
end of 2022 more than one in five homes
was purchased by a corporate investor
now granted some of those are Mom and
Pops but it's an increasingly large
number of Wall Street firms that are
buying up tens and thousands tens of
thousands of homes they have all cash so
they can compete on that basis they
don't have to walk the home because
they're not going to live in it they
don't care whatever repairs they'll just
you know do them and they're not fixing
them up and then selling it to you so
you have a better opportunity to to gain
that wealth they want to rent you the
American dream they want to transfer
that wealth from Main Street to Wall
Street and take that away from you and
that was just incredibly staggering to
me and so you now have a scenario where
people young and old are dealing with
two different sides of the equation
you're dealing with the market that has
too little Supply and too much demand
that demand that's being driven now you
know in in an extra fashion by now
having Wall Street compete which has
just made the prices balloon and get you
know incredibly High across the board
and then you have the destruction of
individuals balance sheets on the other
side you know whether it is through
inflation where people have had to you
know increase their credit card debt or
or dip into personal savings or for
young people you know this predatory
College lending that has been enacted by
the government to transfer wealth from
young people to colleges and college
administrators
um with you know these these non-roy
bearing uh degrees you've got these
wrecked balance sheets where like I
don't even have enough money even if I
was affordable but I definitely couldn't
stretch to this level and it's
completely killed the opportunity for
middle and work in class to attain the
American dream which is something that
we should all be very concerned about
yeah that that stat that one in five
being owned by an institution is
wow
um
mind-blowing and do you do you so just
just to clarify one in five have been
bought so it's not the entire universe
so it's not like all of all homes they
own one in five but of the ones that are
sold in a given year that are so one and
five so this is a new trend so it went
from zero to now you know one in five
which again some of those are are Mom
and Pop investors so it's an
increasingly larger number yeah so like
my my assumption is like when I'm trying
to compete when I'm out there competing
I could be competing against
institutional buyer
um and one of those things one of those
things you should do is you should in
your letter tell the the seller I am not
a a Wall Street buyer I'm I'm an
individual I want to you know keep this
for myself please don't sell this to a
corporation and take this house out of
you know commission
um and out of the pool for you know
potentially the rest of time
yeah let me okay let me ask a couple
follows do you think like there's a way
to to end the institutional binder you
think they just found oh there's some
yield we're gonna stick around there and
then from the seller's perspective too
like if they could get all right they
could get more money from the
institution or more like I yeah that's
yeah it's a conundrum right it is so on
the institutional side there has been
some fighting back you have some housing
associations that are putting rules in
place because you have to think about it
as well you know ownership confers other
benefits too if you own a house you're
going to take care of it in a different
way than if you are a renter and don't
care you don't have that stake that we
were talking about you're an actual
shareholder slash stakeholder not a
pretend one
um so it's it's good for neighborhoods
and so some HOAs have taken action
against this I hate to do things like we
can never have this because you know
there are times when people need to rent
homes
um you know people who are are
relocating to different cities I'm in a
rented house right now because I'm in a
temporary situation so it's good to have
some of those in the market but I think
individuals and and associations having
some limiting factors around it so it
doesn't get out of control so it's not
you know tens of thousands and also you
know get involved at the local County
they're building entire neighborhoods
like this the stand-up is they don't
want that you know you know you want the
ability for people to come in as owners
into your community and to have a real
stake in it that's one thing and then as
an individual you have to make that
decision you know is it worth a couple
thousand dollars to you and I you know I
want you to maximize your dollars but is
it worth that money to have this house
go to Wall Street and potentially never
be able to have somebody else
participate in that wealth creation on
that home again or do you want somebody
you know if you're emotionally attached
to it so love it and to raise a family
there and to have a stake and to benefit
from that so I know lot of people who
are using phrases like families only
please or individuals only please as
just a way to signal that that's how
they're going to do it and yes you are
going to take a small hit but it's like
everything else if we each try to
maximize everything every time for
ourselves it's you know eventually it's
going to come back to you in a much
bigger way so you just have to decide
what's more important I'm not going to
make that decision but just be informed
about what that decision means long term
because I don't think a lot of people
have really thought that through that's
good advice I'm going to write that in
my letter um so I'm like I love like
picking up all these tips from folks
yeah as I go by my first house all right
um we only have a few moments left so I
want to do a bit more of that big
picture macro View and then we'll zoom
in and do what we can do on the
individual level so going back to the
beginning of the conversation this new
Financial order and kind of the US's
status globally
um we talked about the debt situation
where we're having conversation around
the status of the US dollar let's hear
more on a bit more of the big macro
theme and then the final we can start to
zoom in on the individual level but
let's do the macro
yeah so I I don't think it should be a
surprise to anyone that we're in a bad
financial situation you know Deb begets
desperation and the U.S government
doesn't do anything productive
um they can they can certainly quote
unquote print money but they can only do
so in a way that that devalues each of
those dollars they're not adding
productivity in so we need more dollars
to back that productivity so they only
have so many options I mean they can
take more from you whether it's through
you know taxes and fees and wealth taxes
and whatever else and at some point
you're not only does that become
unpopular but it has an impact on how
much revenue they collect you know this
is a big surprise they have to fight
this all the time but you know since the
text cuts and jobs Act was in place
um you know other than that little tiny
covered blip you know for the 2020 year
we've raised more Revenue which is why
nobody's taking it away yet you know
there's something about letting people
hang on to their money and use it
productively that Spurs growth so you
know you can have extract more of that
but then that actually ends up
translating to less Revenue so it
doesn't tend to work out so well for
people
um then you have the ability to cut back
on the promises and you're not only is
there the the 32 trillion dollars in
debt but what I cite in the book is as
of 2021 it was estimated that the
unfunded liabilities were
129.1 trillion sure those have grown
since that so there are a lot of
promises that can't be fulfilled on the
current trajectory and somebody needs to
get real about that again it's super
unpopular so you know you saw what
happened in France when they said we're
going to raise the retirement age from
62 to 64. they burned down Paris uh
would imagine a similar thing would
would happen here so people don't like
when you promised them something that
you know was kind of a fantasy and they
believed it and now you have to tell
them that's not going to happen and so
the third option is to issue debts we've
sort of run out of people who want to
buy our debt on major basis in fact you
know the big holders like the China of
the world have been getting rid of their
treasury Holdings
um and uh Luke Roman who's uh forced for
the trees does great great work he'd had
this really interesting chart which
shows that you know these other
countries you've financed our deficits
for so long but starting in 2014 that
the fed's really been financing the US
and yeah that's why we have this dollar
to basement that's increased so much and
so really the only way out of this for
them is for them to print more money and
devalue your purchasing power so I go
back to uh you know the Saturday Night
Live skit that I quoted in the book that
the Dan Aykroyd is Jimmy Carter being
like wouldn't you like to drive a 500
000 car and we're a seventy five
thousand dollar suit uh because you know
they understood what money printing does
in the debasement of the currency most
people don't now don't do that now so
they're willing to trade that headline
number you're not understanding the
implications just so we saw with the
stimulus checks I mean how many people
what are their Donny dollars in their
Biden bucks the thousand bucks or 1200
bucks that's now costing them ten
thousand dollars a year people just
fundamentally don't understand Finance
we have no basic financial literacy so
you know that becomes the only outcome
and none of those things are good for
your wealth and you know frankly for the
world and and the US's place in the
world so I think that those are all very
serious things that it's going to be
very challenging to get serious about we
can I mean listen we could roll back
spending to 2018 or 2019 levels we'd be
running a surplus we could start to pay
down the debt we could change the
trajectory but who has the fortitude to
do that I mean you saw during the debt
ceiling you know we thought we were
maybe going to get a little bit of
something and we got nothing you know if
we got some token like oh we're gonna
Save A Buck okay great that that's not
going to help so um it's so if we don't
get there is a path on a macro basis
um but if we don't get serious you know
that becomes an issue and then the other
thing that I found during the research
Julia is that there's always a big
Catalyst you know these implosions
happen internally but there's always
some sort of a major Catalyst and so not
every war has brought about a new
Financial world order but every new
Financial world order has been brought
about by War so there's usually some
major thing that happened that then set
the stage for everybody to be able to
come to the table say okay you know what
are we going to do with debt and
currency and whatnot and so I do think
we just need to be really aware of that
possibility and again this could happen
in 12 months 12 years 50 years if I knew
that I'd be on a yacht in a
Mediterranean not sitting here with you
in this lovely podcast but you know we
can see the trajectory we just don't
know those durations are catalysts yeah
well then okay so that's the macro side
of things let's go to the individual
what can the individual do uh to kind of
I don't know reclaim or ensure their
version of the American dream yeah so
obviously
um it's going to be very difficult to
say we're going to stop history from
happening we may be able to prolong it
so I do think voting and awareness
around these Financial issues needs to
become more Paramount people are getting
distracted affected by all kinds of
nonsense which is intentional and if we
had more people that were focused on
these issues there would be more that
was done you can definitely do a lot
more though at your state and local
level like if you think about something
like housing a lot of those issues covet
the state and local level and you can
very much get involved there and have
more meaningful change to open up those
Avenues if you you want to take that I
think that the biggest macro two pieces
of macro advice and you can get the
details obviously in the chapter is one
is ignore what the elite are saying and
do what they're doing every person who's
telling you you will know nothing or be
happy or that there's a climate
emergency or whatever it is is not
acting like those things at all like
they're keeping their homes they've got
mansions on the ocean front they're
flying around in their private jets
central banks are loading up on gold and
precious metals so Bill Gates and the
University of hedge funds they're buying
productive land so do the always say
it's like stop spending on like stuff
that doesn't matter and use that money
to invest and start buying tangible hard
assets think about real physical
ownership and just copy you at a smaller
scale the kinds of things that they're
doing because they know what's going on
here and that they're doing it makes
sense even like something as simple as
lobbying for ownership in the company
that you work for you know there are a
lot of public and private companies that
offer Equity packages option packages
for different levels of people I know
it's something that KKR has a big
initiative on right now that they're
trying to to get more ownership
um you know when they buy come in and
buy a company and I've had some really
interesting success stories yeah so
people I think really want that cash
today and don't think about it like go
in if you're gonna build something own a
piece of that get a stake in that that
can really pay off so you know do those
kinds of things and then have a
diversified portfolio and this is you
know this isn't Rock and science this is
something I wouldn't tell you in any
Financial scenario this is just
generally Good Financial advice but the
fact of the matter is there's a very
different lens on it right when we think
about the things that are going on with
us and we don't know which of these
things are going to be the Catalyst and
what's going to happen first so make
sure you're protected in lots of
different ways and then like the final
thing would be and this is going to
sound very preppery but I would say it's
prepared not preppery is like if things
go really sideways like if there's a
cbdc you get cut off from access from
your money like what are you going to do
do you have you know small denominations
of precious metals that you can trade
with you do you have you know your guns
and ammo do you have some food stockpile
that you could trade with or have you
figured out you know who in your
community has got the chickens where you
can go and trade some sort of service
for that and I know it seems like that's
insane and that would never happen but I
would offer like nobody thought that we
were going to shut down a third of the
economy either a few years ago so just
be prepared you know it's like kind of
like if your house is gonna burn down
one day you don't wait till that day to
come up with an escape plan and buy some
insurance even though it's not very
likely to happen
the same thing here too just kind of
think through these different scenarios
and go okay if this comes to pass at
some point soon what do I do so that I
am not like surprised in that moment or
freaking out and going how is this
possibly happening to me and that you
can get through a period of chaos
because I do think for some of these
things they're probably transitional and
chaotic as have been throughout history
when there have been Financial World
Order changes and so you have to to
think about how you're going to manage
through some period of Chaos
well Carol Roth author of The New York
Times best-selling book you will own
nothing go pick up a copy everyone thank
you so much for being so generous with
your time and your ideas and great to
see you as always Carol really
appreciate you coming on yeah thanks
Julia one more thing you got to buy an
actual hard copy of the book because
this is this is the you know walking the
talk a you want to own it and you know
as we go back to social credit no one
could change the words in this because
they're changing books left and right I
know what I wrote in this one I can
guarantee this version of it if you buy
it online like I have no idea what's
gonna happen to it in the future that's
funny I did I have the physical I also
have the audio too because like when I
do my morning walks I like to do the
audio as well yeah Carol great seeing
you thank you again you too Julia