good morning and welcome to Rising we've
got a busy day ahead of us so let's get
right to it reacting to the debate that
was last night Ranna take it away well
Robbie four of the five remaining GOP
Primary candidates got into it last
night they met on the news Nation debate
stage to hash out their differences
Ronda santis Nikki Haley Chris Christie
and the ramaswami tackled a number of
issues from the economy to the border to
Israel and to Ukraine and also the
elephant in the room or not in the room
former president Donald Trump however
the night's biggest moment came when
personal animosities between ramaswami
and Haley exploded over this challenge
given to the former un
Ambassador so foreign policy experience
is not the same as foreign policy wisdom
I want everybody at home to note that I
was the first person to say we need a
reasonable peace deal in Ukraine now a
lot of the neocons are quietly coming
along to that position with the
exceptions of Nikki Haley and Joe Biden
who still support this what I believe is
pointless war in Ukraine and I think
those with foreign policy experience one
thing that Joe Biden and Nikki Haley
have in common is that neither of them
could even state for you three provinces
in eastern Ukraine that they want to
send our troops to actually fight for
look at that this is what I want people
to understand these people have I mean
she has no idea what the hell the names
of those provinces are but she wants to
send our sons and daughters and our
troops and our military equipment to go
fight it so reject this myth that
they've been selling you that somebody
had a cup of coffee stint at the UN and
then makes 8 million bucks after has
real foreign policy experience it takes
an outsider to see this through look at
the blank expression she doesn't know
the names of the provinces that she
wants to actually fight for and there's
a Puppet Masters right there the donors
the donors right there that are playing
hold
on now that wasn't VI's only swing at
Nikki Haley over the course of the night
we're talking about that trans issue in
Nikki Haley's campaign launch video
sounded like a woke Dylan mulany Bud
Light ad talking about how she would
kick in heels at the first debate she
said that only a woman can get this job
done that's what she said after the
third debate when I criticized R
McDaniel after five failed years of
leadership of this party and criticized
Nikki for her corrupt foreign dealings
as a military contractor she said that I
have a woman problem Nikki I don't have
a woman problem you have a corruption
problem and I think that that's what
people need to know Nikki is corrupt
this is a woman who will send your kids
to die so she can buy a bigger house
this is the problem using identity
politics more effectively than Kamala
Harris is a form of intellectual
fraud those weren't even ramas Swami's
most controversial moments from the
night here's what he also said they got
liberal commentators very riled up if
you want somebody who's going to speak
truth to power then vote for somebody
who's going to speak the truth to you
why am I the only person on this stage
at least who can say that January 6 now
does look like it was an inside job that
the government lied to us for 20 years
about Saudi Arabia's involvement in 911
that the great replacement theory is not
some Grand right-wing conspiracy theory
but a basic statement of the democratic
party's platform that the 2020 election
was indeed stolen by big Tech that the
2016 election the one that Trump won for
sure was also one that was stolen from
him by the National Security
establishment that actually put out the
Trump Russia collusion hoax that they
knew was
false joining us to discuss is political
reporter at Semora Dave wigel and
Washington editor at The Spectator and
Rising Friday's co-host Amber Duke
welcome to you
both thanks for having us thank you I
want to come to you first First Amber uh
for identity politics reasons to get
your view on whether you think ramaswami
is right as he characterizes uh Nikki
Haley as indulging or overindulging in a
kind of gendered identity politics
talking about her heels and whether a
woman has to be the one to do the job uh
in
Washington yeah I actually think he's
right and I've been saying this since
Nikki Haley launched her campaign that
heels comment was so unbelievably
cringey and she's D she's DED down on it
right after the last debate when VI
ramaswami went after her and Ronda
santis saying that they were essentially
di chanian heels she popped off to
Twitter and was talking about how those
heels are her ammunition she corrected
him on stage and said actually they're
not 3in they're five in heels as if that
somehow you know negates the attack I
think it's bizarre in 2023 for any
Republican candidate to be talking about
woman as if it's a
qualification so Dave I want to come to
you uh clearly Nikki Haley has had some
movement in her Direction uh lately to
be kind of the the candidate you know as
as people in the Republican Coalition
who are looking for someone other than
Trump there's not enough of them Trump
is still you know wildly ahead if you
check polls but there's been a settling
on Nikki Haley um lately OB the Koke
Network decided to um back her even
though um her foreign policy commitments
are very um opposite um their their own
kind of non- iist uh efforts but it
seems like she's kind of this is this
her moment has arrived and so she's
taking on a lot of heat from aake
obviously she's been taking on heat from
him from even before she was kind of um
up there you based on the reporting you
do and talking to folks um how is this
shaping up with with Haley and then also
with with DeSantis who's you know I
think has conceded recently that he
thinks he has no chance of being the
nominee unless something rather dramatic
happens to Trump which could frankly
happen given the legal situation
uh right and at sem4 we've been
reporting on some people who' have left
the coat network over this haly
endorsement uh which is still still
happening I think there are people
within the network who assumed that this
endorsement process they talked about in
February wasn't actually going to lead
to fruition they don't support Haley's
foreign policy they don't like the idea
of who she'd bring into the
administration uh but she yes you Fred
her correctly she came to this debate
after a month of donors going her way I
thought it was curious and maybe a
long-term mistake uh in the in how much
she she boasted about it she said at one
point in in an exchange with the santis
that he was just angry because those
Wall Street donors that used to support
him now support her I haven't heard many
candidates successfully brag about how
many Wall Street donors they have and
and the is in a weakened position in
this primary Beyond just what people
think of on stage his negatives been
going up with with Republican voters in
Iowa and New Hampshire but he I think
performed a good service for Trump there
and drawing her out repeatedly on all
those questions all the things that
might make a lot of sense if you're in a
room in the Hamptons or in New York
talking to Jamie Diamond types who just
kind of want things to recept the clock
to
2009 uh he he tried to draw around I
don't think successfully all the time
but tried to point out this is not this
is not as much as as in p wellers pleas
those guys not a populist position
that's in sync with the new Dem
Republican Coalition I think it was a
little bit little bit much to do in one
debate but that was the theme when I
whenever I heard this ramas Swami
attacking in a substantive way da I take
your point on that uh but this seems to
be one of the issues with a kind of
Republican version of populism to begin
with while there is populist rhetoric
there is very little in terms of
commitments of saying I'm not going to
take corporate money I'm going to
disavow corporate pack money I think
that um Citizens United and laws that
enable inless corporate uh money to get
involved in politics or bad you don't
hear those kinds of critiques so I do
wonder if someone in in a field where
the populism is so much in based in
rhetoric as opposed to actually
foregoing those kind of corporate
dollars if pointing out that hey I'm the
one that's the more successful one here
you also did take that money and now
you're just mad that you're not getting
it anymore you've made absolutely no
commitments before they left you to
actually disavow that money is a more
compelling pitch than it would be in
perhaps a left Democratic
context I I think it's it's more
compelling and there's substance there I
mean it's effect Ronda santis cost
corporations money cost Florida some
money with stances he took against
corporate diversity ESG policies that's
just true I think his problem in this
primary has been just it's just not a a
top of- mind issue for a lot of
Republican voters not one that separates
him from Donald Trump they're not
worried that if Donald Trump is
president he's going to go easy on them
too even though he did as president he
gets away with a lot of things uh yes
she is I think this was as as much as
Shay's still in a strong position uh she
was critiqued and and all the
vulnerabilities she has in that space
here which is she is generally more
supportive of L far capitalism bringing
business to the state with tax
incentives boasting about bringing
Boeing to the state uh she's very
anti-union which hasn't really come up
since the UAW strike but is a factor uh
here they they tried to draw it out it
is a I think a significant difference
between Haley and the rest of the field
that's left you had Sim Scott for a
while you now really have her as the one
representative of this sort of bush era
republicanism that says we we need uh
more more privatization more whatever
Wall Street I don't want to be too too
majority whatever Wall Street wants is
good for the country you had the santis
is the one who quoted silent silent Cal
Coit there and said he was right but he
is he has and ramaswami have a different
view of the power of government to shape
bad behavior in capitalism than Haley
does she simply doesn't it was just a
little bit frustrating that that deade
Dov tail into so many other places
because that was really an important
difference between how she would govern
and how Trump and the rest would uh you
know Amber I thought it was interesting
that this debate moderated um by Megan
Kelly was one of the people um up on the
stage has a lot of uh interest you know
on her show she talks a lot about uh
gender issues um the the transgender
debate that came up in this uh in the
debate last night um you know I think
some of the issues that do in fact
pertain to that that Republican primary
voters care about and are interested in
hearing more about the the uh candidates
got grilled on that given this is you
know this is still the Republican
primary I thought it was good to have
some of those conversations um what did
you make of the responses along those
lines yeah well first of all I would say
that you're right I think the questions
were more diverse and more of interest
to a Republican primary voter than any
debate thus far I mean it's pretty
absurd to put a bunch of Republican
candidates on a stage and ask the
question I think it was a couple of
debates ago um under the premise that
trans kids will kill themselves if they
don't get gender affirming care or
whatever like just the premise is flawed
for Republican primary debate so I
thought the questions were a lot better
first of all but the the responses were
interesting because you had Nikki Haley
and DeSantis going after one another
where Nikki Haley had punted on a
bathroom Bill around the same time that
North Carolina did I believe in 2017 and
Dan santis grilled her on that and she
did not seem to have a good response to
it um Chris Christie actually jumped
into The Fray and tried to sort of
thread this needle that I've seen some
people on the left doing actually which
is the idea that parental rights in
terms of what Des santis wants to do
with the education system making sure
parents have knowledge about what their
kids are learning in school and maybe
some input into the idea of parental
rights in regards to whether or not
children should be able to undergo these
sex change or gender affirming uh
treatments as the left calls them um
I've never heard that made by a
conservative or republican thus far and
he got hammered for it right because
desantis's immediate obvious response
was uh there's no parental right to
child abuse um and it was just the nail
on the cof and I think um that the issue
in so far as it matters um on on the
debate stage is that I think it's a
disqualifying if you have the wrong
answer in a
primary some people would argue that say
homeschooling your children or denying
them a menitis vaccine or polio vaccine
or the Slate of childhood vaccines that
have become um that have saved so many
lives over the course of history is a
kind of child abuse should the child
abuse I'm sorry you said homeschooling
is a form of child abuse where people
would argue that well you're very
incredulous there Amber but many people
think that's insane exact it is insane
because outcomes for homeschool kids are
actually Amber would you if
I why would that be considered a form of
abuse well Amber many people say that
allowing your kid to transition people
say
okay I I would appreciate it if you
could respectfully have this
conversation with me Amber and I don't
think the snark is necessarily going to
advance the conversation here so as I
was saying it is obviously the case that
many people in America has evidenced by
polls in the fact that this is a
contentious contentious in contentious
issue feel very differently about issues
about relating to whether their children
should be allowed to transition is that
an internal parental decision or not
just like you think obviously it is not
child abuse to withhold um life vaccines
from your children or to keep them out
of the school system or to perhaps not
keep them up with the generally uh
publicly recommended educational
standard at the school other people say
feel the same way about their um child's
sexual orientation and ability to
transition so this is the question
Americans are obviously divided about
these issues the fundamental question is
should the government pick sides and be
interfering in what parents decide for
their own
children yeah sorry I apologize for the
snark I was genuinely incredulous that
homeschooling would in any way be
compared to gender reassignment surgery
for young
people difference here sorry what about
uh musim mom's the rubella childhood
vaccinations for example and we're
seeing vaccination levels you know
historically no low now I think because
of
the politics around uh the covid crisis
you know should the government intervene
and step in and force parents to
vaccinate their kids and not just say if
you enroll them in public school you
have to vaccinate them but Point Blank
period this is the law that you have to
vaccinate your kids theate over whether
if they're going to go to a public
school right I don't think the debate
Frank isn't really over the government
can compel them abstractly but right now
we're in a in a period of time where
some people would say that even if my
kid does not go to school I shouldn't be
allowed to let my kid transition in my
own home that the do the government
should come in and get between me and my
my doctor and my decision to let my kid
transition outside of a public school
context how is that not analogous yeah I
well the analogy that STIs is making on
the stage is the idea that you shouldn't
give your kids what what the left calls
medical treatment which doesn't actually
treat them because it doesn't reduce the
rate of suicidal adiation or anxiety and
or depression and instead has all kinds
of lifelong consequences such as
potentially sterilizing a kid he's
likening that to actual child abuse as
in like beating your kid he's not saying
it's compared to there's not like to me
there's not a debate over it because the
science doesn't back up the idea that
what the left calls gender affirming
treatment is doing anything to actually
help these kids fact it only comes along
with harm all right let's I just want to
say people say the same thing about
science with the vaccines and that
science is very clear about the
childhood vaccines preventing you from
dying of polio and the like and that's
why the government should intervene on
the parents behalf I'm not arguing
against childhood vaccines I mean at
least it would have to be on a case-by
Case basis like I don't think children
should have to get the covid vaccine
because again the science doesn't back
up that those actually are beneficial to
kids yeah Dave I want to give you the
last word here um let's return to the
kind of situation in the Republican
primary um does it make sense for them
to stick it out be you know Trump is so
far ahead I think no one reasonably
expects that any any of these candidates
Haley DeSantis ramaswami would beat him
when it comes to actually voting but his
legal situation could be tenuous does it
actually make sense strategically for
them to stick it out in case you know
for whatever reason he ends up not being
on the ballot because of the legal
issues that scenario you just sketched
out is is hard to game out because
imagine the response of a of a
republican voter who agrees with someone
like Tucker Carlson and says that what
is being done to Trump is is uh
violating his rights is is the is a
polit is the government using its powers
to prosecute political enemies imagine
them looking at a Republican party that
says well they're right he's in jail so
we're going to have to pick another
nominee it's very tough to see the party
surviving a situation like that it's
tough as tough as if Hillary Clinton had
had been indicted in 2016 and the
Democratic party tried to dump its first
female Presidential nominee even though
they might have won the election uh no
the strategy for everyone who's not
Trump is to last as long as possible uh
for for it for haey in particular it is
do well Iowa wi New Hampshire get a
showdown with him but none of them are
in a position to beat him right now
after New Hampshire if you look at the
states not not just not just South
Carolina this Gap this Gap you have
between that that primary uh and the
first south southern primary uh but the
super Tuesday map uh these are states
where Trump is dominant where he's 50
points every everybody else and
Republican voters have made this
determination that they want they agree
with his policies they like him
personally they think that anything
levied against him by the state by
federal process prosecutors by
prosecutors in New York all of that is a
bogus attempt to get him off the ballot
that's something that you saw only
Christy disagrees and says this is a
real problem people should get take
seriously and you see how much purchase
he has in the primary he gets booed on
stage his negatives in in every state
including New Hampshire are in the 60s
Republicans so it is a I think going
back to those rooms of donors in the
Hamptons that like Nikki Haley and used
to like Tim Scott Ronda santis it makes
sense to them it does not make sense to
many Republican voters that they might
dump dump Donald Trump for what they
view as politically motivated BS make it
make sense they say all right Dave Wile
Amber thank you so much for joining us
we appreciate it thank
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you