and joining me now we have Harry Litman
former US attorney and former Clinton
administration Deputy Assistant Attorney
General he's now host of The Talking
feds podcast and legal Affairs columnist
with the LA times and I read your
article in the LA Times and that's why
my friend you're on the show so we're
going to talk about this um we're going
to run through the scenarios because
first up even if he wins he would not
have the power to make the 34 New York
convictions go away so how do you see
the sentencing proceeding if he wins and
verely if he loses okay let's start with
if he loses Alex if he loses it's a
relatively lowlevel set of felonies
under New York law but there's plenty of
precedent for justice meran to impose a
probably short incarcerator penalty and
people shouldn't forget this a fairly
longterm appr probation which imposes
real constraints on a man who's been
used to doing whatever the hell he's
wanted all his life he will now have to
say pretty please and there's real
justification for doing it here it's not
just the convictions he violated 10 gag
orders he has yet to admit remorse which
judges care about so that's what happens
if he loses even so he would have
appeals and he wouldn't see the inside
of Riker's Island sell for a year or
more if he wins you're right he can't
make it go away but I think the federal
courts and the US Supreme Court might
say you know what you can't do it you
can't incarcerate a sitting president
which actually to me makes sense so I
think that what that would do is forall
the whole thing while he remains
president at January 20th 2028 or
whatever he'd be uh they'd be preparing
his cell or for him then interesting so
um you wrote in this LA Times article
that I referenced a vict victory for
kamla Harris would leave Trump with no
new cards to play against the Juggernaut
of criminal cases against him but Harry
if Trump loses the election
can he still tie up the January 6 case
and the classified documents case in
litigation that drags on and
on I would say that drags on but his on
and on days are pretty much done you're
right that especially the January 6 case
we've got a year ahead of us of slogging
through the Supreme Court opinion on
immunity and figuring out what goes
there we it's always a question mark
with Eileen Cannon but her dismissal of
his case is right now served up to the
11 circuit so yes nobody should expect
that these cases resolve in February or
March but nevertheless I think he will
be right into the MW of the Criminal
Justice System again and you know
there's just no option here you could
imagine a scenario where you know in
some Nixon Ford way there's a grand deal
Trump you don't have to go to jail but
just go away and leave us alone but
that's just can't happen here for one he
would never accept it and even if he
said he would nobody would believe him
so the the criminal justice system is
going to play its role it's not a fast
role but it's but it's really there in a
matter of a year or two during which
there's going to be all kinds of
litigation and things for us to look at
month in month out but here's what you
right that a victory for Trump would
amount to a free pass for a presidency
and post presidency that have been
nothing short of a crime spree pretty
strong words there what specific steps
would he have to take then as president
to try to just get rid of all the cases
against him all right so there's the New
York case which I told you I think he
can push off four years who knows what
it looks like then what he's tried to do
to Alvin brag the other two the big
ticket items where he has to get just
because of the way other uh defendants
have been treated pretty long sentences
if he's convicted as I believe he will
be what does he have to do call up the
attorney General and say dismiss this
case go to the court and say it's over
and that is it that one phone call uh
makes the case go away because it's not
final he's the president and can just
tell the Department of Justice what to
do with a pending case and we have no
doubt that's exactly what he would do
he's already said he'd fire Jack Smith
in two seconds C can I ask you real
quickly because you mentioned Richard
Nixon which brings me to do you think
President Biden would offer him a pardon
just to coales the country in some way
or at least not let it fall further
apart and and separate you think he'd
take it i' I'd put the odds of that at
zero uh you know we have an open wound
here still Alex and I don't see Biden as
his last act in office trying to suture
it up you could imagine as I said again
some discussions involving a president
Harris but I think to your second
question no he wouldn't we've been so
fastidious about trying to play this as
you would with other defendants I think
there's no room now for the broader
system to operate for that kind of grand
bargain we're looking at the cases as
they played out for others and they are
not at all pretty for Trump if he loses
on Tuesday okay it was a heck of an
article and a terrific conversation as
always Harry Litman thank you so much